Interview with Wei Ping: Under the background of "dual carbon", companies that do a good job in carbon footprint management have obtained a "green pass"

Recently, Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Anhui and other regions have successively issued work plans, calling for accelerating the establishment of a product carbon footprint management system. This year's government work report also clearly proposes to enhance the ability of carbon emission statistical accounting and verification, and establish a carbon footprint management system. What are the necessary aspects for enterprises to do a good job in managing their own product carbon footprint? What are the main difficulties or challenges for enterprises to carry out carbon footprint management? How should we advance this work in the future? Regarding these issues, our reporter interviewed Professor Wei Ping from the Department of Finance at the School of Business of Central South University and Director of the Green Finance Research Center at Central South University.

China Environmental News: In what aspects is it necessary for enterprises to do a good job in managing their own product carbon footprint?

Wei Ping: Enterprise carbon footprint management is a means of promoting comprehensive ecological and environmental governance from the production side. From the perspective of enterprises, the value of carbon footprint management is mainly reflected in the following aspects.

Firstly, by conducting a detailed analysis and evaluation of the carbon emissions throughout the entire lifecycle of one's own products, including the carbon emissions in various stages such as raw material procurement, production and manufacturing, transportation, use, and waste disposal, it helps enterprises identify the main sources and influencing factors of carbon emissions in the product lifecycle, understand the distribution of carbon emissions, and provide scientific basis for enterprises to formulate accurate carbon reduction measures.

Secondly, carbon footprint management is an important foundation for achieving green certification in China's manufacturing industry, ensuring international market access thresholds, and maintaining product international competitiveness. In the context of "dual carbon", carbon footprint has become a green passport for products to go global. More and more international trade rules are incorporating the full lifecycle carbon footprint of products into necessary assessment indicators. Some developed countries and regions have begun to implement green trade barriers, imposing higher restrictions on high carbon emitting goods, leading to a decline in the competitive advantage of related goods in China. For example, climate shops in Sweden price products based on their impact on the climate, with higher prices for products emitting more carbon dioxide. Although it appears to be a new model at present, it is likely to be widely adopted in the future. As a major exporter, China's international market is the main product market for many enterprises. Faced with fierce international market competition, doing a good job in product carbon footprint management can help enterprises better cope with these green trade barriers and improve the competitiveness of products in the international market. This is not only a long-term plan for enterprises, but also a long-term strategy for national development.

Thirdly, enterprise carbon footprint management is the fundamental guarantee for building a sound national carbon market system. Carbon footprint management combined with carbon trading systems has become the "optimal solution" for countries to achieve carbon neutrality. The accounting, control, certification and other management methods of carbon footprint can provide important tools for carbon quota allocation, carbon credit certification, and so on. On this basis, we can gradually expand the scope of the carbon market industry, expand the coverage of carbon trading entities, and achieve breakthroughs in carbon trading in terms of transaction volume and volume.

Finally, doing a good job in carbon footprint management is beneficial for enterprises to better disclose the carbon footprint information of their products to stakeholders. This is not only a requirement for compliance, but also significant in the investment market, as ESG responsible investment is increasing day by day. Investors are paying more attention to long-term sustainability investments, not just short-term returns, but also increasingly valuing the sustainability performance of companies. Good carbon footprint management will facilitate high-quality sustainable information disclosure and communication, help companies establish a good corporate image, and attract ESG investment.

China Environmental News: What aspects do product carbon footprint management include?

Wei Ping: Product carbon footprint management involves carbon emission management throughout the entire lifecycle, including data collection, evaluation and analysis, emission reduction strategies and supervision, information disclosure, and other aspects. It is the main means for enterprises to achieve emission reduction goals and promote green development.

Firstly, it is necessary to conduct a detailed analysis and evaluation of the carbon emissions throughout the entire lifecycle of the product, including the carbon emissions in various stages such as raw material procurement, production and manufacturing, transportation, use, and waste disposal, and ensure the accuracy and reliability of the data. Based on the collected carbon emission data, carbon footprint can be analyzed and evaluated, identifying the main sources and influencing factors of carbon emissions in the product lifecycle, understanding the distribution of carbon emissions, and providing a basis for enterprises to formulate more accurate emission reduction measures.

Secondly, based on the results of carbon footprint analysis, corresponding emission reduction strategies and goals are formulated, including measures such as optimizing production processes, improving product design, improving energy utilization efficiency, reducing transportation distance, etc., and corresponding supervision systems are established to regularly evaluate and monitor the implementation of emission reduction measures.

Finally, carbon emission management needs to disclose the carbon footprint information of products to stakeholders, including investors, upstream and downstream enterprises in the supply chain, government regulatory departments, consumers, etc. Through transparent information disclosure and communication, enhance corporate social responsibility and sustainable development awareness, and establish a good corporate image.

China Environment News: According to your understanding, which industries or companies are already exploring product carbon footprint management, and what specific work has been done? What experiences are worth summarizing and promoting?

Wei Ping: As far as I know, the carbon footprint management in the battery and electronics industries is relatively mature, and others are still being explored. The pressure of carbon footprint management in these two industries mainly comes from overseas markets requiring suppliers and export products to indicate their carbon footprint. The core of carbon footprint tracking management for the entire lifecycle of enterprise products is energy consumption and materials. Currently, it can be implemented at the factory and workshop levels, but the main obstacle is at the process level. Due to the wide variety of products and complex processes, it is difficult to effectively collect, efficiently calculate, and analyze carbon data for each process.

Some companies are also exploring the establishment of digital platforms for carbon footprint management. For example, Ant Group has launched the Ant Chain Enterprise Carbon Neutrality Management SaaS product - "Carbon Matrix", which can achieve unified platform management and data visualization of enterprise carbon neutrality data, as well as certification and issuance of certificates by third-party professional institutions on the chain. Through the ability of blockchain secure computing, Ant Group's own carbon emissions, carbon reduction, settlement, regulation, audit and other processes are made public and transparent. Relevant records can be traced and verified at any time, helping enterprises disclose environmental related data while ensuring data security.

Baosteel Group has initiated the construction of a smart carbon data platform. Relying on Baosteel's Big Data Center to collect various types of carbon related data, we will build a carbon data platform that covers the entire process, process, and variety of the company, providing important quantitative tools and big data support for the company's energy-saving and carbon reduction strategic decision-making, and achieving carbon peak and carbon neutrality. The carbon data platform is an important data platform for the company's energy conservation, carbon reduction, and environmental management. Based on the management model of "one headquarters and multiple bases" of the company, carbon emissions are calculated based on the same language, standards, platform, and culture. Ensure that the carbon emissions of homogeneous processes and products can be compared, controlled, and reduced in a single headquarters with multiple bases.

China Environment News: Currently, what are the main difficulties or challenges for enterprises to carry out carbon footprint management? We can discuss both policy and technical aspects.

Wei Ping: At the policy level, carbon footprint management involves multiple aspects such as policies, regulations, and markets. With the advancement of global climate change governance, relevant policies and regulations may continue to be adjusted and improved, bringing certain uncertainty to enterprises. At the technical level, accurately collecting and accounting for carbon footprint data is a challenging task that involves various aspects of the entire product lifecycle. The amount of data is large, the sources are diverse, and it is constantly changing. Enterprises need to establish effective data collection and management systems to ensure the accuracy and completeness of the data.

Meanwhile, the selection of accounting methods and the unification of standards are also major challenges, as different methods and standards may lead to significant differences in accounting results. The main methods for calculating carbon footprint include life cycle assessment (LCA), input-output analysis (I-O), economic input-output life cycle assessment (EIO-LCA), and IPCC. We have calculated from an academic perspective that different accounting methods have differences in the way data is collected, processed, and analyzed, which also has a significant impact on the accuracy and comparability of the calculation results. Therefore, how to unify carbon footprint accounting methods while ensuring the transparency, verifiability, and sustainability of calculation methods, and comprehensively improve the consistency, comparability, and accuracy of carbon footprint accounting results, is currently a major challenge at the technical level of carbon footprint management.

In addition, carrying out carbon footprint management requires a certain amount of investment, including costs in data collection, accounting, report preparation, and other aspects. For small and medium-sized enterprises, this may be a significant expense that may increase their operating costs. Therefore, how to control costs while ensuring the quality of carbon footprint management is a problem that enterprises need to face.

China Environment News: Do foreign countries already have relatively mature experience? What insights can these experiences bring to Chinese enterprises?

Wei Ping: The carbon trading markets in European and American countries and regions were established relatively early, and the system is also relatively mature. Correspondingly, many European and American enterprises have also formed a relatively complete carbon asset management system, which is what we call carbon footprint management. Taking French electricity and BP as examples, they have both formed relatively independent carbon asset management organizational systems. While serving their own carbon emission compliance and filling the carbon emission rights gap, they also effectively activate carbon assets and achieve economic benefits through active carbon financial tools.

For example, most physical enterprises in the UK oil industry have a carbon emission working group and management committee, composed of expert members familiar with policy regulations, compliance, corporate strategy, trading, finance and taxation, procurement, sales, law, publicity, and system construction, responsible for monitoring, reporting, verifying greenhouse gases, and fulfilling carbon emission control obligations in the region where the enterprise is located. Key industry enterprises in China can learn from relevant institutional construction experience and closely follow international and domestic product carbon footprint standards or policies. Each enterprise will incorporate carbon footprint management into the scientific carbon reduction target system and further incorporate it into the overall improvement of ESG at the strategic level.

China Environmental News: How do you think companies should do a good job in carbon footprint management of their products? What specific suggestions do you have?

Wei Ping: Firstly, establish a comprehensive carbon footprint assessment system and set clear carbon footprint management goals. Enterprises can use professional evaluation tools and methods to comprehensively evaluate the carbon emissions of various links such as raw material procurement, production, transportation, use, and disposal of products, and set clear carbon footprint management goals to incorporate carbon footprint management into their long-term strategic planning.

The first step is to build it, and the second step is to use it. To establish a carbon footprint data monitoring and reporting system, and continuously improve the carbon footprint of enterprises. Enterprises should establish a comprehensive carbon footprint data monitoring and reporting system, regularly collect, organize, and analyze carbon footprint data, monitor and evaluate the carbon footprint of products, timely identify problems, and take measures to improve. At the same time, pay attention to the latest policies and regulations on carbon footprint management both internationally and domestically, to ensure that the carbon footprint management work of enterprises meets relevant requirements.

Carry out risk management in the process of carbon footprint management. Essentially, technological innovation is an important way for enterprises to reduce their carbon footprint, but it often comes with high risks and high investments. Our previous research found that the financing costs of high carbon risk enterprises increase, and therefore they have to reduce their financial leverage. The risk of financial distress for enterprises facing funding shortages or high capital costs is also higher. Therefore, when enterprises carry out technological innovation to reduce their carbon footprint, they need to comprehensively evaluate the feasibility and economy of technological innovation, choose a suitable technological innovation path, make long-term strategic plans for carbon footprint management, and reduce the risk impact of carbon footprint management on the enterprise itself.

Conditional enterprises should actively participate in the formulation of industry carbon footprint standards, maintain active communication and cooperation with domestic and foreign peers, including international standard formulation and domestic industry alliance led standard formulation for various industries. Especially for central enterprises, they should actively participate in the formulation of international standards, rather than passively following them. In recent years, relevant departments and commissions in our country have made significant progress in promoting this aspect.

China Environment News: You mentioned that for small and medium-sized enterprises, carrying out product carbon footprint management will be more difficult. What suggestions do you have for this?

Wei Ping: Due to financial pressure and technological capabilities, the motivation for small and medium-sized enterprises to carry out product carbon footprint management is not very strong. I think there are two modes that can solve this problem.

One is the cooperation model between banks and enterprises. The "Green Finance Guidelines for the Banking and Insurance Industry" issued in 2022 clearly stated for the first time that financial institutions should achieve the goal of carbon neutrality in their operations and asset portfolios. The calculation of carbon intensity in investment and financing is an important part of the assessment and evaluation of green finance in banks. Therefore, banks and financial institutions have clear compliance requirements for carbon inventory of corporate customers. However, due to cost and technological difficulties, small and medium-sized enterprises generally lack the motivation to participate in carbon footprint management. On the basis of certain financial subsidies, promoting the cooperation model between banks and enterprises, guided by banks, to assist small and medium-sized enterprises in carbon footprint management is a mutually beneficial matter.

The second is the leading model of industrial parks. High tech or innovation and entrepreneurship industrial parks in various regions are important carriers for small and medium-sized enterprises, and they are familiar with the situation of enterprises within the parks. Led by the industrial park, training, guidance, and development on carbon footprint management for enterprises in this park are relatively easy to organize and execute, and can accurately identify the needs of specific industry enterprises in this park. It can also promote the construction of green parks.

专访危平：“双碳”背景下，企业做好碳足迹管理就是拥有了“绿色通行证”

近日，上海、江苏、浙江、安徽等地先后印发工作方案，要求加快建立产品碳足迹管理体系。今年政府工作报告也明确提出，提升碳排放统计核算核查能力，建立碳足迹管理体系。对于企业来说，做好自身产品碳足迹管理的必要性体现在哪些方面？企业开展碳足迹管理的难题或者挑战主要有哪些？未来应该如何推进这项工作？围绕这些问题，本报记者采访了中南大学商学院金融学系教授、中南大学绿色金融研究中心主任危平。

中国环境报：对于企业来说，做好自身产品碳足迹管理的必要性体现在哪些方面？

危平：企业碳足迹管理是从生产端来推动生态环境综合治理的一种手段。从企业的角度来看，碳足迹管理的价值主要体现在以下几个方面。

首先，通过对自身产品整个生命周期的碳排放进行详细分析和评估，包括原材料采购、生产制造、运输、使用阶段以及废弃处理等各环节的碳排放量，有助于企业识别产品生命周期中碳排放的主要来源和影响因素，了解碳排放的分布情况，从而为企业制定精准的降碳措施提供科学依据。

其次，碳足迹管理是实现我国制造业绿色认证、保障国际市场准入门槛和保持产品国际竞争力的重要基础。在“双碳”背景下，碳足迹已成为产品出海的绿色通行证。越来越多的国际贸易规则，将产品全生命周期碳足迹纳入必要的考核指标。一些发达国家和地区开始实施绿色贸易壁垒，对高碳排放商品施加更高的限制，导致我国相关商品的竞争优势下降。比如瑞典的气候商店，根据商品对气候的影响来定价，二氧化碳排放越多的商品价格就越高。虽然目前来看这还是一种新型模式，但在未来很可能被广泛采用。我国作为出口大国，国际市场是许多企业的主要产品市场，面对激烈的国际市场竞争，做好产品碳足迹管理可以帮助企业更好地应对这些绿色贸易壁垒，提高产品在国际市场上的竞争力。这不仅是企业的长期规划，也是国家发展的长远战略。

第三，企业碳足迹管理是建设健全全国碳市场制度的根本保障。碳足迹管理叠加碳交易制度，已成为各国实现碳中和的“最优解”。碳足迹的核算、控制、认证等管理手段可以为碳配额分配、碳信用认证等提供重要抓手。在此基础上，才能逐步扩大碳市场行业纳入范围，扩大碳交易覆盖主体，从而实现碳交易在成交量、成交额等方面的突破。

最后，企业做好碳足迹管理有利于企业更好地向利益相关方披露产品的碳足迹信息。这不仅是实现合规的要求，在投资市场上的意义也很显著，因为ESG责任投资正与日俱增。投资者更加关注长期可持续性的投资，而不仅仅是短期回报，也越来越重视公司的可持续性表现。好的碳足迹管理将有利于高质量的可持续信息披露和沟通，帮助企业树立良好的企业形象，从而吸引ESG投资。

中国环境报：产品碳足迹管理包括哪些方面？

危平：产品碳足迹管理涉及整个生命周期的碳排放管理，包括数据收集、评估分析、减排策略与监督、信息披露等多个方面，是企业实现减排目标、推动绿色发展的主要手段。

首先，需要对产品整个生命周期的碳排放进行详细的分析和评估，包括原材料采购、生产制造、运输、使用阶段以及废弃处理等各个环节的碳排放量，并确保数据的准确性和可靠性。基于收集到的碳排放数据，可以对碳足迹进行分析和评估，识别产品生命周期中碳排放的主要来源和影响因素，了解碳排放的分布情况，为企业制定更精准的减排措施提供依据。

其次，根据碳足迹分析的结果，制定相应的减排策略和目标，包括优化生产工艺、改进产品设计、提高能源利用效率、减少运输距离等措施，并建立相应的监督体系，定期对减排措施的执行情况进行评估和监测。

最后，碳排放管理需要向利益相关方披露产品的碳足迹信息，包括投资者、供应链上下游企业、政府监管部门、消费者等。通过透明的信息披露和沟通，增强企业的社会责任感和可持续发展意识，树立良好的企业形象。

中国环境报：据您了解，哪些行业或者哪家企业已经在探索开展产品碳足迹管理，具体做了哪些工作？有哪些经验值得总结推广？

危平：据我了解，目前电池、电子行业的碳足迹管理相对成熟，其他都还在探索之中。这两类行业碳足迹管理的压力主要还是来自海外市场要求供应商及出口产品标明碳足迹。企业产品全生命周期碳足迹跟踪管理的核心是能耗和物料，目前在工厂、车间层面是可以实施的，主要障碍是在工序层面。由于产品种类繁多、工序复杂，很难做到对每道工序进行碳数据的有效采集、高效核算和分析。

也有一些企业探索建立碳足迹管理的数字化平台。比如，蚂蚁集团上线了蚂蚁链企业碳中和管理SaaS产品——“碳矩阵”，可以实现企业碳中和数据统一平台管理及数据可视化，以及链上第三方专业机构认证和颁发证书。通过区块链安全计算的能力，使得蚂蚁集团自身碳排放、碳减排、清结算、监管、审计等过程公开透明，相关记录可随时追溯查证，帮助企业在确保数据安全的前提下披露环境相关数据。

宝钢股份已启动智慧碳数据平台建设。依托宝钢股份大数据中心汇集碳相关各类数据，建设覆盖公司全流程、全工序、全品种的碳数据平台，为公司节能减碳战略决策、实现碳达峰碳中和提供重要的量化工具和大数据支撑。碳数据平台是公司重要的节能减碳、环境经营的数据平台。结合公司“一总部多基地”的管理模式，基于“同一语言、同一标准、同一平台、同一文化”，进行碳排放的测算。做到“一总部多基地”同质工序、同质产品的碳排放可对比、可管控、可降低。

中国环境报：目前，企业开展碳足迹管理的难题或者挑战主要有哪些？政策层面或者技术层面都可以谈一谈。

危平：在政策层面，碳足迹管理涉及政策、法规和市场等多个方面。随着全球气候变化治理的推进，相关政策和法规可能会不断调整和完善，给企业带来一定的不确定性。在技术层面，准确收集和核算碳足迹数据是一项艰巨的任务，涉及产品整个生命周期的各个环节，数据量大、来源多样，而且处于不断变化中，企业需要建立有效的数据收集和管理系统，以确保数据的准确性和完整性。

同时，核算方法的选取和标准的统一也是一大挑战，不同方法和标准可能导致核算结果存在较大差异。碳足迹计算方法主要有生命周期评价法（LCA法）、投入产出分析法（I—O法）、经济投入产出生命周期评价方法（EIO—LCA法）和IPCC方法。我们从学术层面算过，不同的核算方法对于数据的收集、处理和分析方式存在差异，对计算结果的准确性和可比性也有较大影响。因此，如何在确保计算方法透明性、可验证性和可持续性的基础上统一碳足迹核算方法，全面提高碳足迹核算结果的一致性、可比性和准确性，是目前碳足迹管理技术层面的一大难题。

另外，开展碳足迹管理需要投入一定的资金，包括数据收集、核算、报告编制等方面的成本。对于中小企业来说，这可能是一笔不小的开支，可能会增加企业的运营成本。因此，如何在保证碳足迹管理质量的同时控制成本，是企业需要面对的问题。

中国环境报：国外是否已经有比较成熟的经验？这些经验能为我国企业带来哪些启示？

危平：欧美国家和地区的碳交易市场建立比较早，体系也较为成熟，与之相应的，很多欧美企业也已经形成了较为完整的碳资产管理体系，也就是我们所说的碳足迹管理。以法国电力和英国石油为例，他们都形成了较为独立的碳资产管理组织体系，在服务于自身碳排放履约、补齐碳排放权缺口的同时，也通过积极的碳金融工具，有效盘活碳资产，实现经济收益。

例如英国石油行业大部分的实体企业，都有一个碳排放工作组和管理委员会，由熟悉政策法规、合规、企业策略、交易、财税、采购、销售、法律、宣传和系统建设方面的专家成员组成，负责温室气体的监测、报告、核查和企业所在区域碳排放控制履约。我国重点行业企业可以借鉴学习相关的制度建设经验，紧跟国际、国内产品碳足迹相关标准或政策。各企业将碳足迹管理纳入科学碳减排目标体系，并进一步纳入企业战略层面的ESG整体性提升中。

中国环境报：您认为企业应该如何做好产品的碳足迹管理，有哪些具体建议？

危平：首先，建立系统全面的碳足迹评估体系，设定明确的碳足迹管理目标。企业可以通过专业的评估工具和方法，对产品的原材料采购、生产、运输、使用及废弃等各环节的碳排放进行全面评估，并设定清晰的碳足迹管理目标，将碳足迹管理纳入企业的长期战略规划中。

第一步是建起来，第二步就是用起来。要建立碳足迹数据监测与报告体系，持续改进企业碳足迹。企业应建立完善的碳足迹数据监测和报告体系，定期收集、整理和分析碳足迹数据，对产品的碳足迹进行监测和评估，及时发现问题并采取措施进行改进。同时，关注国际和国内关于碳足迹管理的最新政策和法规动态，确保企业的碳足迹管理工作符合相关要求。

做好碳足迹管理过程中的风险管理。从本质上来说，技术创新是企业降低碳足迹的重要途径，然而技术创新往往伴随着高风险和高投入。我们前期的研究发现，高碳风险企业的融资成本增加，因而不得不降低其财务杠杆，企业陷入资金短缺或资本成本过高的财务困境风险也更高。因此，企业在进行技术创新降低碳足迹时，需要综合评估技术创新的可行性和经济性，选择适合自身的技术创新路径，做好碳足迹管理的长远战略规划，降低碳足迹管理对企业自身的风险冲击。

有条件的企业应积极参与行业碳足迹标准的制定，保持与国内外同行的积极交流协作，包括国际上的标准制定和国内以行业联盟为牵头单位的针对各行业的标准制定。尤其是央企，要积极参与国际标准的制定，而不是被动的跟随。这个方面我国相关部委近几年已经做了大量的推进工作，并取得了比较明显的进步。

中国环境报：您提到对于中小企业来说，开展产品碳足迹管理会更加困难。对此您有哪些建议？

危平：由于资金压力和技术能力等原因，中小企业开展产品碳足迹管理的动力不是很足。我认为有两个模式可以解决这个问题。

一是银企合作模式。2022年印发的《银行业保险业绿色金融指引》首次明确提出了金融机构要实现运营和资产组合碳中和的目标。投融资碳强度的核算是银行绿色金融考核评价中的重要内容。因此，银行金融机构对企业客户的碳盘查有明确的合规需求。而中小企业因为成本和技术难度的考虑，碳足迹管理的参与动力普遍不足。在一定财政补贴的基础上，推动银企合作模式，由银行来指导，协助中小企业的碳足迹管理，这是一个双方互惠互利的事情。

二是产业园区牵头模式。各地的高新技术或创新创业产业园区是中小企业的重要载体，对园区内的企业情况比较熟悉。由产业园区牵头进行本园区企业的碳足迹管理的培训、指导、开发等，比较容易组织执行，也能够较精准地定位本园区特定行业企业的需求，而且能推动绿色园区的建设。